(no subject)

[aprilstarchild]

Did a group ride to St. John's today, and because of how the group split up, I still haven't been to Cathedral Park. Maybe I'll go up there later this week, just on my own. Now that I'm not commuting to work, I'm not getting enough exercise, and I can tell.

On the way home I stopped at Videorama and rented Persepolis. I've seen it before but it was right when it came out.

Books are almost always better than their movies. Persepolis was such a fantastic book that I worried about it becoming a movie when I found out. But I think it's entirely possible that the movie is better than the book! Maybe I shouldn't compare them, though. They're both wonderful. You should read the book and see the movie too.

The only problem I have with the movie, and watching the special features afterward, is that everyone is smoking all the damn time. Marjane Satrapi, in real life, is a heavy smoker. When I went to see her speak at the Schnitz last year, she was cranky about not being able to smoke while talking, especially since she was so nervous. (Her first words upon getting to the podium: "Oh my god, there are so many of you.")

So watching the movie etc. really makes me want a cigarette, and I quit in December. I have some cloves, and I'm sure I have a half pack of American Spirits somewhere. BUT I WILL RESIST, DAMMIT.

---

Note to self: I really need to stop getting into discussions with people who have ADD but don't take meds. I always find their reasoning infuriating and illogical. It's frustrating because it so often happens with friends and people I otherwise respect.

I do find it amusing, but not all that surprising, that such a high number of people in the cycling circles I hang out with are ADD.

I know it's a touchy issue with me. Almost nothing makes me angrier faster than seeing someone with uninformed reasons for not taking ADD meds. Am I just defensive? I don't think so. I don't think I'm taking the easy way out or anything.

I think it's just knowing that people are letting their lives be so much harder than they have to be. I hate having to go without meds. I hate having a fuzzy brain and not being able to focus and realizing I'm interrupting people (more than usual) or being obnoxious or not getting anything done. Why would anyone in their right mind live that way on purpose when they don't have to?!

I know the analogy of comparing ADD meds to glasses is probably overdone, but it's such a damn good analogy. My meds don't cure my ADD, they don't even really make me completely "normal" when I take them, but they do help me be happier and less frustrated.

I feel like I have a bunch of adult friends with severe nearsightedness who won't wear glasses because, y'know, they don't want to get dependent on them. That's just the way their eyes are, they should just get used to it. They don't want to rely on something outside of themselves to see. They'll never get good at seeing on their own if they wear glasses. That reasoning is asinine if you're nearsightedness, does it make any more sense if we're talking about stimulant medication for ADD?

Comments

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

I think both sides of the meds/non-meds debate need to allow for differences of opinion and experience in the other side. I don't even think it's necessarily something anyone needs to take sides on.

From my experience with depression, there was a time when it was appropriate for me to take Prozac to help me out, but then it was time for me to try alternative methods to help with my depression. It may be that I decide meds are appropriate again someday, or I might be able to help myself again with other methods that have worked in the past.

Other people might simply prefer to live unmedicated. I know that as good as Prozac made me feel when I was first taking it, I didn't quite feel authentic. I don't know if ADD meds work that way for some people, but they might.

The truth is it is hard for anyone to know how these medications will function in another person, and what the experience of being inside their head might be. For you, your meds are very helpful and a good thing, but they might not help someone else the same way, or maybe that person experiences side effects or simply doesn't feel like themself.

I know that you feel upset when people question whether meds are good things, but you have to allow that people who don't take meds might feel upset if you insist too much that they should.

Unless someone is endangering other people with a condition, I think everyone deserves to make their own choice about these things, even if that choice feels uninformed to someone else.

As much as I've been feeling depressed again lately, I would rather try to work through this with therapy, exercise, meditation, yoga, and even just with a slightly longer period of depression than go back on Prozac. For me the side effects and the slightly "odd" feeling I had of not being quite me are not worth it. Even though I get depressed, it feels authentic.

I know ADD is a different creature, but I'm sure that some people are able to work with their ADD through alternative methods too. I've heard that dietary changes, meditation and just slowly working out tricks to use have worked for people on that front too. If those things work for some people, I think that's a good choice too.

And hell, if someone would rather be near-sighted than wear glasses, that's okay too. If it's what they want, and they're not driving without being able to see, then I'm fine with that.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Most of the cases I've heard of people not liking the ADD meds, they are on the wrong one or on the wrong dose. There are people for whom they don't work, or who have too many side effects, and that's unfortunate.

ADD isn't something that ever goes away. If it does, you don't have ADD. Pretty much by definition, it's something you have your whole life. All of the studies on the dietary methods/therapy/non-medication methods, have come back saying that nothing works as well as the medications. In double-blind studies, 90% of people with ADD have a significant drop in symptoms with one or another stimulant medication.

I'm not debating that people have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to take the medications. I won't take an SSRI antidepressant unless it's that or suicide. I stopped taking Lexapro because I didn't like the way I felt on it. I stopped taking Wellbutrin because I ran out and never went back on it because I realized I felt fine without it.

But people should be making educated choices.

If a friend of mine who was nearsighted decided they didn't need glasses, I certainly wouldn't force glasses onto their face, but if they start tripping over the sidewalk, complain they can't read signs, and don't recognize faces at a distance, I'm going to think they're kinda dumb.

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

When it comes to various mental illnesses/brain disorders (not sure what ADD goes under) there is still a lot of research to be done.

If people are saying that by definition if ADD goes away then it's not ADD they could also possibly be ruling out people who have ADD and cure it or at least people who have some variant. It's extremely rare, but there have been cases of schizophrenia that are cured. This doesn't mean it's likely, but it is probably possible.

That said, I don't think my tendency towards depression will necessarily ever be cured. My brain chemistry may be different than other people's. Or it may not. But either way, even if meds were guaranteed to be "more effective" in stopping the depression, that doesn't mean they would be what I wanted to use. A drop in symptoms does not necessarily equal a better experience for an individual.

I don't know what your conversations with people have been like, and why you think they aren't making educated choices. It could simply be that they are deciding based on different criteria.

The reason I decided to respond to this post is not because I want to say that one way is better than the other, but because I think that you might be placing a wedge between yourself and other people that doesn't need to be there if you judge that their choices are uneducated or that they're being dumb.

If you feel they are suffering unnecessarily and want to help them, you can certainly offer them the benefit of your experience and let them know how you have felt using meds. But if these are people you like and respect, it might be easier to just not worry about whether you think their choice on this matter is a good one.

We all sometimes see friends doing things we think aren't for their benefit. The best you can usually do is speak your mind and then step back and let it go.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

I understand some people are going to use different criteria than I do.

Oh, and: I talked a few weeks ago to several of the psychiatric people where I worked about schizophrenia specifically, and they all told me that if someone's schizophrenia was cured/went away, they didn't have it to start with. There are other things that can be cured or alleviated or that do go away, that have some similar symptoms. People with some kinds of very severe depression can have psychosis, for example.

ADD is a neurobiological problem. They're getting to where they can see it in brain scans. You can't cure ADD any more than you can grow back a missing limb.

If you feel they are suffering unnecessarily and want to help them, you can certainly offer them the benefit of your experience and let them know how you have felt using meds.

In my idea reality, that's all I'd do. I'd give people information, and attempt to let it go. That's the part I'm having a problem with.

It bothers me that this bothers me so much. I'm not sure why, exactly, it bothers me so much. There are a very few that make me that upset that quickly. Creationism is another one, I think. What a weird combo.

I want to be able to talk to people rationally about this, and then let it go. I really hate how I feel when I see people saying stupid shit about why they don't take meds, or why nobody should take meds.

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

I don't know if I'm right, but it might be that underneath your agitation about the meds disagreement or whether ADD is curable there are some personal feelings.

I think there's a lot of shame in our culture around mental illness and the idea that we should all be able to "fix" ourselves and we must just be lazy or something. I understand that, because I dealt with that and still deal with that to a certain extent, with depression.

I think that being told that our disease is just like any other disease and we need medicine for it can be liberating in that sense, because it gives us the ability to tell people - see, I wasn't just being lazy/whatever, I have a medical problem.

And this is probably true to a large extent. But I think that the shaming is bullshit whether you can get better or not, whether you need to use medication or not. I don't think people should be made to feel ashamed for not functioning up to some societal marker.

So I do think that most mental illnesses if not all can potentially be cured. And I do think that many mental illnesses, if not all can respond to other means than medication, because I've met people with all types of mental illness for whom meditation, particularly, has worked.

I think, though, that it's never something we should feel lesser about, whatever the case.

It's fine to disagree about this. I know you take a scientific hard line on things, but scientists often disagree, even in their studies, science is always changing, and medical science tends to dismiss anomalies rather than explore them for what they might have to offer.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

I agree that my feelings are involved here--but I also think that in terms of science things are provable or they are not.

The symptoms of ADD make sense when you realize the issue is a problem with the executive function of our brains, and that that is something people can see with the right kinds of equipment.

Whether or not ADD, or any mental illness, can be cured is a separate issue from my feelings about it.

I'm seriously not trying to be adversarial here, but did you meet the people who said they were cured with meditation, when you were involved with the Ascension people?

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

You and I have different opinions about the infallibility of science, April.

Also, while I ran into some bad things during my experience with Ascension, I also ran into people who seemed quite genuine in their experiences, and the practice itself has, at times, alleviated my depression more than Prozac ever did.

We have different opinions here. You may not respect mine, but I still think that there is room for doubt in all areas of knowledge, including the sciences.

As to the curable mental illnesses, there are case histories documenting people recovering from schizophrenia and other mental illnesses, as well as people being cured of "incurable" cancers. There are nearly always anomalies in medical science, people who, for no apparent reason, are able to get better.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Do you want to go for a hike or something later this week?

I'm feeling down these days as well, and I know it's because I'm spending too much time alone and indoors. I want to go for a long walk somewhere like Forest Park where it's almost wilderness. I don't have true hiking boots so we have to stick to fairly well-maintained trails, but other than that I'm open to suggestions.

There are some pretty trails into Forest Park that start at the Hoyt Arboretum, that kind of thing.

My schedule, obviously, is pretty much open. :^)

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

This week is, unfortunately, the worst week for me, because I have the biggest project of the term due in first draft on Monday. So other than my big party on Saturday, I'm probably not doing anything "fun" this week - other than making baked goods Friday night, most likely, for said party.

But maybe next week. It would also give my foot a chance to recover!

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

I just remembered your foot.

I could bring over the DVD of Persepolis. I have it until Friday.

[encapsulate.livejournal.com]

On the ride to Cathedral Park, let me know if you want me to go with you. I love the bridges. I've been over the St. Johns but never under it.

[maryam.livejournal.com]

I wish ADHD meds worked for me as well as they've worked for you. I've tried everything available, played with dosages, and they all work for about three days and then I get really terrible anxiety and heart palpatations. I lower the dose a little, and feel no benefit. It's been a frustrating experience, and I feel bad for those around me, but I've been working on this for over two years and I haven't found a good medication yet.

Despite this, I'm persistent. I still think that I might find something, anything that works. I mean, I have to. I'm a total stimulation junkie and I don't want to be anymore. I'm driving myself nuts.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Oh man, that sucks. I'm sorry.

If I haven't taken mine in a while they can make me a little jittery, but it goes away in a few days/weeks. What you're dealing with sounds worse, though.

[maryam.livejournal.com]

I've actually been taking the least troublesome of the bunch, Vyvanse, consistently for over a week now. I've had two anxiety attacks and I have a hard time eating, but I'm not giving up in hopes that those will go away in the next couple weeks.

I also need to find a way to add structure to my day. The meds tend to be less bothersome and more effective when I'm busy and away from the computer and TV.