(no subject)

[aprilstarchild]

So I took a Very Unscientific Poll, and now I'm even more convinced that the ad campaign pushing Strattera as the cure-all for adult ADD, is complete bullshit.

Although Adderall XR was finally approved for adults last fall. Woot. Doesn't make a difference to most people or even doctors prescribing the stuff, but it does affect some people's insurance coverage of medications.

---

On a slightly different (and much more heated topic ATM), Polyamory, yay! (And more info over here!)

Okay, here we go: The research I've read (especially Woman: An Intimate Geography by Natalie Angier, and Skipping Towards Gomorrah by Dan Savage) suggests that human beings are not "naturally" monogamous. Both genders find it socially and Darwinistically (is that a real word?) convenient to pretend to be monogamous, and then run off to diversify the gene pool. This is true when you look at most current human societies (I think the statistic is that in something like half of all marriages, someone at some point cheats), it's true of some of our closest primate relatives.

If people want to be monogamous, that's fine. If people are willing to promise that, then they should stick to it, attempt to renegotiate, or break the contract (i.e. get a divorce if they're legally married).

However, the ideal of the nuclear family and permanent monogamy is not the universal ideal and never has been. And polyamory works about as well as monogamy does--people fuck up in both, people do really well in both. I'm not pointing fingers at all my friends who've ever divorced and saying, "See, monogamy doesn't work!!" but people apparently feel totally comfortable doing that with polyamory any time a relationship ends or turns sour.

I personally find the idea of staying sexually monogamous with one person for the rest of my life, to be claustrophobia-inducing. If/when I marry/commit to someone, that person needs to be able to deal with that, one way or another.

I love that I can meet someone at a pirate event or pagan festival, have a good time with that person for the weekend (or just one night!), snuggle in my tent, and kiss them goodbye. I can see that person at other events and grin at the happy memory without any assumption of a repeat, or freaking out if they're with someone else.

I love that I can be with someone long-term, and still do that. I love that I have friends who used to be my lovers, who are now lovers with my friends, and there's no animosity--just occasional jokes. I love that I have friends I could snuggle with to watch a movie or fall asleep with without any amorous intent necessarily assumed.

Blargh. Tired. Bed.

Comments

[axiom.livejournal.com]

It is an individual relationship that works, or does not. The styles and variances between common setups for types of relationships only change the probability of a type of relationship working or not. But trust me, that "probability" means very little. So much changes based on how well a person knows themselves, and what they need from a relationship with respect to what they can or can't get from said relationship. In addition, those important elements, as well as the rules that people attempt to live by, are all dynamic.

Things are only "set in stone" until they change.

;-)

If people want to be monogamous, that's fine. If people are willing to promise that, then they should stick to it, attempt to renegotiate, or break the contract (i.e. get a divorce if they're legally married).

I completely agree.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

People who are likely to fuck up a polyamorous relationship will probably fuck up a monogamous one as well. Learning to be honest with myself and communicate seems to be everything.

Ooh, I forgot to point something out in my entry--everyone acts like there's not enough love to go around, and it's B.S. There's often not enough time to go around, but love doesn't divide, it multiplies.

[jenhowell.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I still really dig polyamory as an ideal. I'm feeling really monogamous towards Lee at the moment. But he won't be sticking around for too much longer, alas. And we are theoretically polyamorous. As in, neither of us is interested in seeing other people at present, but if we were, it's an open topic and not something to feel betrayed about.

Honestly, I don't think there are many people who wouldn't be polyamorous if they weren't so afraid of their s.o. leaving them or didn't have jealousy about their s.o. seeing other people.

For me, I no longer think I'd have the time to commit to more than one relationship at once. I like my relationships long and deep and time-consuming and more than one of those seems untenable. But just having the idea that attractions and possible interactions with others is okay to talk about, think about and do if everyone agrees to it, well, that does feel more freeing to me as well.

Yeah. If you're interested in reading the journal of a very successful polyamorist, may I suggest serenejournal. To all the naysayers of polyamory, I often refer them to her journal, because she is quite open and enthusiastic about her many loves and their trials and successes.

Ner.

Thanks for the We'Moon. It's provided me with some comfort in my depressed state.

Love,
Jen

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't think there are many people who wouldn't be polyamorous if they weren't so afraid of their s.o. leaving them or didn't have jealousy about their s.o. seeing other people.

So, so true. Reading The Ethical Slut gave me some interesting things to think about in terms of the idea of jealousy. Her basic point was that we assume that jealousy is a huge overpowering emotion that we can't do anything about. If we're feeling jealous, we need to find out why, and see what we can do about it.

Pirate Events?

[thorongil8.livejournal.com]

Uhh, what is a pirate event?

I'm pretty sure at this point that polyamory isn't for me, but it does seem to work for many people. My main issue is the time and energy. Even the good polyamorous relationships I've seen tend to be a bit high-maintenance for my tastes. The intensity and time involvement grow non-linearly with the number of people, I think. Tertiary relationships are probably an exception, but they don't appeal to me all that much. But that's just me. I agree it makes a lot of sense, at least in theory, although our cultural context can make it difficult.

Re: Pirate Events?

[5minutelimit.livejournal.com]

In other words, it's hard enough to deal with the emotions of one other human being other than yourself, let alone multiples.
Damn humans. So complicated. Really need an alternative species.

Re: Pirate Events?

[5minutelimit.livejournal.com]

And, ARRRGH!
And, YOu will go to a pirate event.

Re: Pirate Events?

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

*lol*

Yeah, doing the poly thing requires lots of open communication and whatnot. Things can get real nasty real quick when people aren't honest about stuff.

Re: Pirate Events?

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Um, do you know what the SCA is? If you do, it helps make the pirate thing make more sense.

The shorthand version: A bunch of otherwise sane mostly-adults get together in one place and pitch tents in groups. We dress like pirates (of various time periods and ethnicities) with occasional stabs at actual accuracy and all pretend our ships are docked at the same place at the same time. The groups are called households or ships, and often have semi-official borders and entryways (to help make the "ship" thing a tad more accurate).

In other words, we all camp out in one spot and drink and party a lot, and occasionally go on raids. Our weapons are boffers (which are like PVC pipe covered in funnoodle-type-stuff. Getting whacked might hurt a little but is unlikely to do any real damage) or cap-gun pistols. The items captured in raids include people, which are usually tortured with food and/or alcohol; or more alcohol, or items communally owned by ships--like a bell or flag (all households and ships have a flag, specifically for the purpose of going on raid for them).

It's a raucous good time, and I try to get to at least a couple events every summer. The Pirate's Gathering is over Memorial Day weekend, and last year we had close to 700 people! And they mentioned us in the Oregonian's A&E over here (http://haloscan.com/tb/hudsonvc/E372739262)!

Re: Pirate Events?

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Gah, the link doesn't work, how annoying. Go to culturepulp.com and click on archives on the right, and it's the last entry of May 2005.

[singswithtrees.livejournal.com]

:) We love you, too.

what the ...

[5minutelimit.livejournal.com]

So I was talking to Doug about the current LJ discussions and Aeonflux' experience and he suddenly says something like "Well, I haven't said it as such, so I want you to know that I consider myself to have a contract to be Monogamous to you."
This took me by surprise and all I said was "...uh, Oh..Kay..."
Which probably wasn't the proper response.
Ooops.

Re: what the ...

[trillium-flower.livejournal.com]

The first time bill said he loved me he was on the couch with chuck in his lap and I was in the kitchen talking to him. My response "you're talking to the dog right?"

Re: what the ...

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Well near as I can tell you've never made an effort to not be monogamous with him, so it's sorta the default setting.

[mechalith.livejournal.com]

Personally, I tend toward serial monogamy. Which is to say, I generally stick with one person 'til I get bored/confined/burnt out, and then move on.

I'd love a functional open poly relationship, but I've got a tiiiiny territoriality problem, and get violently jealous despite my best efforts to understand why and fix the problem. Casual sex/snuggles/whatever don't get to me, but if I'm in a longer relationship I can't cope with sharing that way.

Plenty of love to go around, not sure how to handle the associated emotions, y'know?

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

Jealousy sucks. It often has some pretty deep background--we all feel like our lover's going to leave us, or that they love that other person better, or that we're not "enough" for them.

I don't know about you, but for me jealousy is this pit-of-my-stomach icky feeling. It literally makes me nauseated when it's really bad. If I feel up to it I talk about it, if not I just try to hold on to myself and my behavior until it passes somewhat.

Have you read The Ethical Slut yet?

[mechalith.livejournal.com]

Haven't read it yet, somebody always has it.

For me, jealousy is a combination of the feeling you get, combined with an overwhelming urge to smash and hurt something. Anything that makes me feel helpless and betrayed tends to make me angry almost immediately. I think it's a side-effect of some of the shit I went through years ago that I've never managed to sort through.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

I think it's a side-effect of some of the shit I went through years ago that I've never managed to sort through.

I think that's true of most people.

[rikell42.livejournal.com]

I personally thing the whole idea is not any more crazy or out lan dish then being with the same person my entire life. I have seen to many nature shows about primates to think that monogamy was natural. To me it seems the exact opposite.

I think the most powerful advice anyone has given me in the last year is this: "people get different things from different people". The idea really is not that crazy. It is straight forward and simple. If anyone has a better way of saying this please let me know. To me it means that it is not realistic to think that there is one person out there that will complete me and to stop looking. I never really bought into the idea that 'I would meet someone and everything would be wonderful' but still. It was exactly what I needed to hear.

I see no reason to limit what I have to offer to others. I find it very frustrating when I end up closing my self off to someone because of excepted limits to our relationship. This applies just as easily to any kind of relationship. Be it co-workers never talking about there personal lives or be it friends never having sex because of prior commitments to other people. It all seems like needless barriers to people actually getting all of there needs met and really starting to relate to each other as humans.

It seems like there is so much to say and to figure out with this subject and I rarely find anyone open enough to rational thought to talk about these things. Most people I talk to seem to see it as a sure way to misery but I have a feeling that is mostly do to them not thinking very much about it. Much like my sister thinking that me smoking a joint will make me a homeless addict. She believes this mainly because that is what her little bubble of a world tells her.

time is short. I must go.

[aprilstarchild.livejournal.com]

*nod* I totally believe that there isn't one right person for me. There are different people right for different parts of me at different times in my life. Don't get me wrong--if I find a person that makes me happy most of the time that I can actually literally live with, than I'm going to do my damndest to keep that relationship. And I like the idea of having one, steady, primary relationship. But I don't excpect some magic wand to get waved, and I'll meet That One Person and everything will be easy.

I have trouble asking for things I need, I've been trying a lot more lately to work on that.

I think the key with all this is honesty--with myself, with other people--and to always act with the best of intentions. Does that make sense?

[rikell42.livejournal.com]

all of that does make sense to me. I feel the same way most of the time. I think the idea of a primary relationship makes sense. I know somepeople in these circles don't like the idea of hiarchy but it seems the most natural to me.

I find I don't let myself ask for the things I need either. I think it is because of many factors I am not compleatly aware of. One factor I am fairly sure on though is that I convince myself that some of my needs are just wants. This is not the best way to go about it because when I do that I am supressing parts of myself that make me who I am and things that make me human.

Another common factor that I am at least a little bit sure of is the whole 'not deserving it' mentality. This one seems common enough and if I am honest with myself it is something I do try to deal with on a semiregular basis.

The more I think about honestly and communitcatoin when things get kind of chaotic in my mind I find it easier to get grounded.

ok I am going for now. As always so much to say and never enough computer time.