I think this comes down to a fundamental disagreement you and I have:
I think that things are scientifically provable, and that there can be such a thing as scientific fact.
Most religious people are happy enough with science until it disagrees with them. Which is silly, because when/if science agrees with them, then of course science would be right, and they'd quote said science all day long.
For instance: if prayer worked, we'd get strong scientific proof of it. We don't. Therefore religious people say we're doing it wrong, or figure out some reason it didn't work that doesn't challenge their beliefs. But if science proved that prayer worked, they would want everyone to know it.
Religious people cannot prove that god exists.
I truly think that many religious people are being intentionally ignorant or stupid. Creationists are stupid, I'm sorry. Science is 100% on the side of evolution. Biology as a subject only makes sense in terms of evolution.
So in that case, I *do* know better than religious people.
You may not like their approach, but whether or not Harris or Dawkins is abrasive to you--either atheism is right, or it's wrong.
And there's definitely a place in the public discourse for people like Dawkins and Harris. There needs to be someone out there who's willing to say the impolite: "You can't prove your religion to be true, and I respect you less for believing in things you can't prove." If a guy tells me Elvis talks to him through his TV he's crazy, but people who say that Jesus talks to them are generally respected, and I do believe there's something wrong with that.
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2009-02-10 03:05 am (UTC)I think that things are scientifically provable, and that there can be such a thing as scientific fact.
Most religious people are happy enough with science until it disagrees with them. Which is silly, because when/if science agrees with them, then of course science would be right, and they'd quote said science all day long.
For instance: if prayer worked, we'd get strong scientific proof of it. We don't. Therefore religious people say we're doing it wrong, or figure out some reason it didn't work that doesn't challenge their beliefs. But if science proved that prayer worked, they would want everyone to know it.
Religious people cannot prove that god exists.
I truly think that many religious people are being intentionally ignorant or stupid. Creationists are stupid, I'm sorry. Science is 100% on the side of evolution. Biology as a subject only makes sense in terms of evolution.
So in that case, I *do* know better than religious people.
You may not like their approach, but whether or not Harris or Dawkins is abrasive to you--either atheism is right, or it's wrong.
And there's definitely a place in the public discourse for people like Dawkins and Harris. There needs to be someone out there who's willing to say the impolite: "You can't prove your religion to be true, and I respect you less for believing in things you can't prove." If a guy tells me Elvis talks to him through his TV he's crazy, but people who say that Jesus talks to them are generally respected, and I do believe there's something wrong with that.